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Save a horse [Jun. 24th, 2005|05:47 pm]
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[blueguitarist]
Unlike most woman of today, I’m going to just come out and say it. I miss cowboys. Rough burly men, who didn’t speak much, chewed on a piece of straw and commonly used the word ma’am. I don’t necessarily men a strict cowboy, with a six shooter, chaps and a heavy tan (although I must admit that those features can be fashionable), I mean in the sense of a man’s man. The men I dreamed of as a little girl, the handsome prince with a broad sword (not a John Brown reference), the bad boy in a leather jacket, the dark suited business man, and the cowboy are a dying breed.
Not that I am unsatisfied. In fact, I have been pleased with the modern-day male race in general. The “nice” guy, commonly characterized to have sensitivity, understanding and sophistication is in abundance. This generation has taught a tolerance and empathy to the sexes that had been misunderstood or hidden before. Most of it’s effects are wonderful. I’m also not trying to claim that chivalry and manners are gone, because I see many of cases of that as well. But when the word “man” is spoken, I’ve always found a subtle depth to it. A man doesn’t cry. A man takes care of his woman. A man works hard and doesn’t take any shit. Granted, an old fashioned outlook, but I don’t mean it in the sense that sends a woman to the kitchen. Being physically stronger then a woman bears no influence in this definition.
I’m just becoming tired of men that care whether their hair is gelled correctly or not. Guys who “have feelings too” or who can be considered “pussy-whipped”. This new metro-sexual rising. Their grandfather’s wouldn’t stand for that shit. I’ve also found that even our “tough” guys, are judged like 50 cent: by the amount of times they’ve been shot or whether or not they have Gucci fabric on their shoes. In another cultural sense, how many piercing one guy has over an other, how many times they’ve dyed their hair purple, or how big their biceps are. It’s just simply that, I feel, even though they retain the physical properties of a male, they perhaps should not be titled with “men”, and a word with less effect should be commissioned.
All in all, I miss cowboys. The men that open doors for their women and eye down every guy in the room. Men who don’t give in and say “Alright honey, we can watch Oprah, because I care about your feelings”. Men who can work up a sweat, but don’t bitch about it. Men who don’t shave their chests or shop at Hollister. Men who can make a girl’s knees weak without reciting poetry. It’s my animal instinct to think of the big alpha male. Yes, I’m a woman and will never be ashamed of wearing a dress, or crying at Titanic, but damn-it that doesn’t mean I want my man doing it.
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Comments:
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[User Picture]From: blueguitarist
2005-06-24 11:16 pm (UTC)
whom might u be, before i meet u in the closet?
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[User Picture]From: blueguitarist
2005-06-24 11:24 pm (UTC)
good to kno
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[User Picture]From: ediblemike
2005-06-24 11:36 pm (UTC)
My greatgrandmother was molested and raped by her step-father. He worked very hard, never cried, and beat those kids when they were bad (and good). This is all true.

He was certainly a man's man and I'm very much looking forward to the day when women once again know their place.
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[User Picture]From: blueguitarist
2005-06-25 01:32 am (UTC)
yea...i hate to break it to you....but he was just an asshole....
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[User Picture]From: ediblemike
2005-06-25 01:43 am (UTC)
I hate to break it to you, but your amorous expectations are set up with false representations created by shitty Harlequin Romances without any place in reality. Furthermore, you're requesting a regression to an even more misogynistic time in which women were not respected and therefore men didn't share their emotions towards them.

The main relief I feel from reading your hope to return to a time when men knew how to be men is that you'll likely be weighed down with an early pregnancy that shatters your very chance at happiness and leads you to a life of drug abuse, spiraling into depression. It's a well that you'll never climb out of. But, hey, at least you'll be able to stay in the kitchen and not wear any shoes when your manly man comes home, eh? Thank God for unshaven chests and an inability to express feelings. Ah, good times.

And, yeah he was an asshole. So are the guys you describe.
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[User Picture]From: ediblemike
2005-06-25 03:52 am (UTC)
That's how I roll.
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[User Picture]From: blueguitarist
2005-06-25 03:23 am (UTC)

My sincere apology....

I'm sorry to have offended you to so much. Perhaps you're right about the high expectations driven by unrealistic characters. Since you assume that my ideal goal is a life of post-partum depression, then I'm glad I have these characters to fill my fantasies and replace the real men I come in contact with. And obviously my reference to any sort of "tough" appeal has come off to you as "abusive and aggressive".
And of course that's how I meant it. And my criticism towards men who shave their chests had nothing to do with obsession over appearance, but instead any man's understanding towards a woman. The perfect stereotype that any man who would cry, is a man who treats his woman right. Or perhaps that's the stereotype I'm trying to get away from.....nah. Your probably right.
Most of all, I'm so glad that you;ve jumped to the defense of women everywhere with this horrible idea in their heads, because now you've saved everyone of us from an inevitable downfall into " an early pregnancy that shatters your very chance at happiness", since I'm assuming you know all about that .

Hey! Guess who else is an asshole?! :)
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[User Picture]From: ediblemike
2005-06-25 03:27 am (UTC)

Re: My sincere apology....

That'd be me. Honey-Child, I've got no beliefs to the otherwise.

The beautiful thing about your anger is that it clarifies your argument. You make far more valid points here.

Unfortunately, you fall into the trap of just counter my argument by repeating my argument. I was specifying my criticism of poor expectations upon you as a way to mock you, and you expanded my argument to cover all women. I believe that most women are intelligent enough to understand the difference between a bodice-ripper book and reality. When I said the early pregnancy thing, that was only about you. The rest of the women, I assume, are leading fulfilling lives with men who are cool with watching a little Oprah.
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[User Picture]From: ediblemike
2005-06-25 03:44 am (UTC)

Re: My sincere apology....

By the way, "my criticism towards men who shave their chests had nothing to do with obsession over appearance, but instead any man's understanding towards a woman" isn't very clarifying.

Are you telling me that men who shave their chests don't understand women? Because I've been told by many heterosexual women who date men that are straight who date women that they prefer their partners with shaved chests. Are we missing a point?

And I actually don't think that the stereotype that men cry are the perfect men is true. I actually believe the opposite. I believe the stereotype is that men who don't cry are strong providers.

The "tough" stereotype as attractive comes from the older tradition that men were responsible for providing a solid household while a woman's sphere of influence was within the home. To be "tough" meant mentally and economically stable. This point of view came to a large height in a revival of European chivalric ideals through the filter of an American aesthetic. This was a reaction to the "dandy" styles and fashions of the late nineteenth century which many religious leaders condemned as self-loving and masturbatory. Therefore a more rural, physical-based stereotype of masculinity was valued over a psychologically quick, if showy one as popularized by Mark Twain and Oscar Wilde.

Overtime this view of "tough" became the standard of masculinity, being applied retroactively to the slowly disappearing cattle industry, painting handy men and more rural, manual labor as an attractive setting. This is where the stereotype of pornography centering around men in unskilled labor positions entering homes of married couples and having sex with wives of more white-collar workers comes from. It as an ideal that concentrates on a physical production over a mental production. Whichever you choose is fine.

The return to a more dandy-like preference for men comes largely from the feminist movement and societal pressure on heterosexual relationships to be equal. Feminists criticized popular movies in which motorcycle drivers and cowboys-like characters open disrespected women or had multiple partners as a sign of their potency. They criticized that portraying men as doomed heroes who felt no shame in their actions or had no regrets worked as a metaphor for sexual intercourse in which males have (and should have in the prospective of the filmmakerS) a physical and psychological control of the situation in which they are unable to connect with a woman's own agency.

The fact that cowboys were also often migrant works is what developed the joke (which I used) about the abandoned pregnant mother; the trope of a ever-moving cowboy as the ultimate sex symbol clashed with the inherently derived trope of the woman who controls the household as her husband / lover travels for his physical labor.

While in the movies and novels, this walking into the sunset appears very romantic and quite erotic, in reality, the economic burdens this relationship would (and often did) convey upon the woman in the relationship caused them to work multiple jobs that did not pay well due to the requirement of flexible hours.

A good book that documents this subject of women subjected to such labor do to economic hardships created by an unequal physical and emotional relationship expectation is called Nickel and Dimed. It's a quick read.
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[User Picture]From: ediblemike
2005-06-25 03:45 am (UTC)

Re: My sincere apology....

And yes, I know that Oscar Wilde was bisexual.
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From: harshbarge
2005-06-25 03:53 am (UTC)

Re: My sincere apology....

your & idiot
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[User Picture]From: ediblemike
2005-06-25 03:54 am (UTC)

Re: My sincere apology....

Why's that?
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From: harshbarge
2005-06-25 04:00 am (UTC)

Re: My sincere apology....

It was joke demeaning myself really. I just did it for attention.
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[User Picture]From: ediblemike
2005-06-25 04:02 am (UTC)

Re: My sincere apology....

Miles, you could never demean yourself in my eyes. You're too hot for TV.
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[User Picture]From: blueguitarist
2005-06-25 04:38 am (UTC)

Re: My sincere apology....

Well, glad you had fun there. Also glad you took so much interest in it and it meant so much to you. I don't really care that much so I didn't read all of your reply there, but I guess you beat me. Congradulations.

You can now have a cookie.
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[User Picture]From: ediblemike
2005-06-26 01:44 am (UTC)

Re: My sincere apology....

Don't tease me like that. I love cookies.

Yeah, sorry if I was a dick. I do care passionately about the representations of relationships in various forms of media. Written papers on it and whatnot.
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[User Picture]From: blueguitarist
2005-06-26 03:40 am (UTC)

Re: My sincere apology....

It's perfectly fine. It was kinda fun, in a demeaning type way.
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From: where_was_i
2005-06-26 01:17 am (UTC)

Re: My sincere apology....

As is often the case with references to the inferiority of women, I'm convinced Mr. Alexander would rather enjoy this. (I did catch that this wasn't entirely about the inferiority of women, but that kind of stuff slips right by him.)
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[User Picture]From: ediblemike
2005-06-26 01:40 am (UTC)

Re: My sincere apology....

A.) Who is Mr. Alexander?

B.) My post focused on the fact that the "tough" archetype of attractive men often refracts a resulting stereotype of women as weak. The very reason I dislike this idea that men should be tough and never cry and ignore the emotions of women is because it places them above women, or at least, outside their spheres of experience.

When we seperate the spheres of emotional experience between the sexes, we inherently make a block between their understanding of one another. Remove that understanding and you allow one to take power over another.

So, no. You are wrong. I'm arguing specifically against the idea that women are inferior. So your snide comment that I share views with a Mr. Alexander is both foolish, as I don't know who your Mr. Alexander is, and wrong because I obviously disagree with this view.

Fool.
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From: harshbarge
2005-06-25 02:27 am (UTC)
Hey, wasn't this essay on the english AP?
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[User Picture]From: blueguitarist
2005-06-25 02:46 am (UTC)
was it i dont remember...
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[User Picture]From: blueguitarist
2005-06-25 03:24 am (UTC)
oh yea......well i happen to like cowboys thank you....
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[User Picture]From: _teresa
2005-06-25 07:16 am (UTC)
Yeah, but the subject wasn't cowboys, it was just mentioned in the story we had to read.
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